How to Debate (Verbal Slaughter)

[E-Stalin [Orthrus]]

Summed up: for me the point of this thread is to entertain myself. For you, it's to learn how to debate with another. To debate is to wage a logical and factually accurate argument in an effort to persuade the opponent, which does not necessarily mean proving your opponent wrong.

However, this is not purely how to debate with a wholly intelligent opponent, but this is about about waging debate against an uninformed, uneducated, arrogant, irrational, moronic, psychotic, and absurd child of an opponent. These opponents are also known as targets for the banhammer. Someone like tommy, who wonderfully fits almost every single category of "child to be banned" I can think of. These people will pull some kind of stunt, break rules, act like asses, and overall prove themselves to be worthy of punishment, either temporary or permanent banning. However, when these people refuse to admit their wrongful doing and keep acting up by trying to justify and validate themselves (poorly) you can debate in one of two ways.

1. If they are intelligent people, you can properly and logically inform them of the simple facts. If they truly are normal and intelligent, they will easily recognize that they were wrong and apologize (therefore sparing them punishment as they've learned their lesson). Or if indeed, they were in the right and you were wrong, they will likewise logically point out the situation and show why they deserve no hammering.

Or...

2. They will keep digging their own hole by further aggravating the board members, flaming, denying their faults, and blaming the administration. In this case you will do the same as above, only when banning them you can systematically destroy and possible shred of credibility to their so called argument, beautifully insult them in such a way that is supported by your logical arguments (therefore insulting facts and not mere "FU" style phrases that mean little) and then ban them so they can be kicked out pissing their pants in humility.

--------------------------------
The mechanism of debate is very simple. When you debate with an opponent over a specific topic, the two of you will have differing viewpoints. Your goal is to present your point of view in a such a manner that it cannot be shown to be wrong (therefore it must be right) and simultaneously knock down any incorrect (differing) point your opponent may bring up in favor of their own argument.

To prove that your opponent is wrong all you must do is provide factual data that invalidates every single point your opponent tries to bring up (usually signifying their idiocy) and then drive it home by showing them just how truly foolish they are by use of their own argument. This is simple, easy, and very satisfying. It'll become second nature to you soon enough, just follow the below points and you'll quickly find your own particular style of building and executing a verbal slaughterhouse.

Rules to Live by. Which are pretty much common sense.

Remain rational. There must always be logic and factual data in any argument your present. This can be mixed with righteous outrage and insults, but you should never post empty insults. If the person truly is an idiot that does not understand what they're saying, you must simple demonstrate this, why they're wrong, and then call them an idiot (after undoubtedly demonstrating that they are in fact, an idiot). Do not ever make a post filled with nothing but insults that have no substance.

Quote. Quote. Quote. The quote function is possibly your most useful tool in demonstrating your opponents wrongdoings and ignorance. If you're arguing for a ban and they try to deny something they did, the quote function will yank it right up and display it for all to see.

Cite. Cite. Cite. If you are trying to prove a matter that the opponent declares false (even though it's valid) cite your references. Make sure your references are valid, which merely requires a good source, such as a scientific publication or a biology textbook. You need name, article, quote, and page number. Post links to internet pages whenever possible. Magazines like Science for example.

Track down your opponent.. Google is your best friend. To figure out exactly what and how much bull your opponent believes, all you need to do is follow your opponent to their other websites, where they'll almost always post it and usually try to diss you (poorly).
Most of the time, if this is a member on your board, they will post links to other boards they attend in some of their previous posts or their profile. Use their email. Typing in someones email adress in google will often get your direct links to forums with members using that address. Note that this will not always help you, and may turn up dead ends. If you can't find any other stuff they say that can help your argument, forget about it. Just trash the points they make on your board and be done with it. If you do find some website, they'll inevitably be further links to other stuff they attend. If stalking isn't for you (Hey, it's in the name of verbal pwnage, nothing creepy about it) then leave it. Beat down the points they post on your board and have done.

Remain sane. I've seen things that are so unbelievably stupid that they make me lose faith in the human race and want to kill them sheerly for frying my brain cells. Kent Hovind, anyone?
Debating (Lopsided arguing) with an idiot will earn you more facepalms than you can imagine.

Stalingrad their ass. Beat down every single last point of theirs that you possibly can, then beat down some further points that branch off from theirs for good measure. Make sure your points are valid and untouchable. Absolutely destroy any guise of science they may have and then banish them to the realm of twilight. If you've found their other websites, pull out and ravage any argument they've posted there. Leave them no backups with which to return and argue. Destroy their recon force (Call for a ban), incinerate the bulk of their armies (points they bring up directly), shoot down their logistics (branching possibilities), and then nuke their reserves (other websites). Don't you love nerdy analogies? At this point, don't even bother to let them get the last word in. All they can say now is "I'm right, you're wrong, wa wa wa." which is just boring.

Fallacies:
Cool linky here. www.youtube.com/watch?v=EXMKPvWqgYk

Proper debating (intelligence people):
Cooly linky here. www.truthtree.com/debates.shtml

[Adara]

*giggles*

Want me to make your verbal debate, err, thesis, completely irrelevant? ;D

Yes, no, doesn't matter, 'cause I'm going to point something out that you failed to mention Orthy ol' pal.


People, when you're dealing with a douche bag of the Tommy caliber (and I'm using that brat as an example, as he is the example Orthy gave)it doesn't matter how well, or how thought out, your argument is.

Frankly, at the end of the, "debate", the jackass you're talking to isn't going to give two shits about your facts, regardless of how well backed up they are.

Truth of the matter is; People of this, "quality" aren't out for intelligent debate. They're out to, how should I write this..."WIN" the argument. In essence you don't end up, "beating" them, unless they actually resort to name calling.

Many lulz follow, but still, they don't think you've actually defeated them. Kids of this grade are often obtuse.

Take, Spearheart for example. Girl didn't know when to quit. I verbally ripped her a second ass, and yet she persisted on doing what she did best. (Attention whoring in her case.) She simply refused to see what she was responsible for, and blamed the world around her for her, "cutting" herself.

In essence your argument is made for the benefit of your fellow members, who do understand your points, and can laugh and point at the moron who missed everything you've so cleverly written out. Sadly, satire and such are often overlooked by the common attention whore/drama queen/asshole.


Honestly, the best piece of advice that can be given when dealing with these people would be to laugh at them straight out. Since, if anything, they don't appreciate being the object of someone else's amusement, rather than awe.



On the other hand, if you're like Orthrus and myself, you can have a pretty interesting debate, and make it humorous.

See, this reply within itself is a counter point to Orthrus' original post.

'course, I haven't resorted to the name calling, but that kinda stuff is readily available here: Dammit, Orthrus!


I amused myself writing this too. OH what fun....

[E-Stalin [Orthrus]]

(MGS style exclamation point)

But if we DIDN'T do all that verbal slaughter (which IS useless, like you've shown) then it'd be boring. I mean, you can always just ban them without a single word in. Which is BORING.....screw it, back to my own verbal slaughter. To the damnable orthy shrine! Hopefully we have some new material to further prove my own uselessness. I shall discuss it with the voices in mine head.

[Adara]

Feb 3, 2009 15:37:31 GMT -5 E-Stalin [Orthrus] said:

(MGS style exclamation point)

But if we DIDN'T do all that verbal slaughter (which IS useless, like you've shown) then it'd be boring. I mean, you can always just ban them without a single word in. Which is BORING.....screw it, back to my own verbal slaughter. To the damnable orthy shrine! Hopefully we have some new material to further prove my own uselessness. I shall discuss it with the voices in mine head.

See, but then we're arguing entertainment value, over substance.

'Course it's funny. Funny as hell, but frankly I would rather just get to the part where I intelligently put them down, and skip the logic, since they'll be skipping it anyway. It's like their brain shuts down when they see something that makes sense.

I mean, I loved it when the jackasses were intelligent, where their arguments were not only annoying, but were grounded on SOME fact. (Of course, it was often distorted, but still.)

Those were the days when Gen and others would give someone a verbal enema.

Those arguments were not only fact based, but also FUCKING HILARIOUS! Thus, you got your witty reparte and debate all in one.

Now a days, one must set one's expectations lower.

Attention Whores
Wannabe Wiz Kids
Deluded Nobel Prize Winning Writers (Emphasis on DELUDED.)


That's what we've got, Orthrus. That. Is. It.


I mean, personally, I get a kick out of the writers. Mostly when they think they're great at it. I love to bring them down a notch. It's a guilty pleasure of mine. ;D

I'm sure you love the Wannabe Wiz Kids. I can almost see your mouth water when someone like that comes along and tries to enlarge their e-penis by spouting out stats of shit they haven't the vaguest conception about.

As for the attention whores. Well, it depends on what type. What do you think, Orthy?

[E-Stalin [Orthrus]]

What do I think? I think that's just depressing.

The thing is though, there's always some selfish value in any debate, even the older ones. It's an inevitable result of the human psyche; we just need to assert ourselves in one way or another. After all, we could just immediately ban anyone breaking rules without a word in edgewise, but we don't do that, mostly because we actually believe in trial by jury of peers, although that doesn't happen on this board. Nonetheless, we do review the situation and allow the defendant to explain themselves. That's what separates our totalitarianism from the Stalinist kind.

Point being that we don't need to have any semblance of a debate in the first place. Nonetheless, we do. So even though explaining to retards that they are retards doesn't mean a damn thing, I still prefer to do it, and really like to read it. Freud would likely propose that this is some kind of compensation mechanism, but I always preferred Jung's views. Gen's responsible for me coughing up a few lungs from laughter all right.

[Shagrath]

Ada, how can you not like the attention whores? Who, deem themselves so much worse off than everyone else... Don't you find them amusing? I mean, they talk about how horrible their lives are on the internet. Complaining, and moaning and crying to anyone that will listen, to about how terrible they have it.

Because you know, it's horrible to have a nice cushioned seat to sit on while you talk to people thousands of miles away on a highspeed internet connection. That's so terrible, but... They act like their parents give half a damn and feed them too! And pay their cell phone bill, and keep a roof over their heads.

And then make them do chores how dare their parents make attention whores do anything at all for all the pains they put them through, as the fore mentioned ones. Sure, they made the kid go to school and attempt to have them get an education. But who needs one of those? That would require effort.

No matter what you say to them, nothing will change. It's like talking to a brick wall, asking it to open up, and let you through to the house.

I see nothing un-fun about that.

[Setg]

So in essence we become the attention whores ourselves, or should I say pale imitations of them. When we do rip the plebs new ones, we always do it with style and panache, because we know people will be reading the post (unless we do it in PM and then it's for our own amusement).

We also seem to want the attention our annihilations bring about. Let's be honest, The General, Ada, Han, and Orthus and myself all give out complete and utter ass-whuppings when they are deserved, but I wonder just how much of the rhetoric we deliver is to satisfy our own sense of self-worth.

[Adara]

Oh the dilemma!

Do we become that which we mock? Or do we let bygones be bygones? (Yeah, like that would EVER happen)

As for Orthrus' point about having the choice to either ban people right away whenever they commit an, infraction, rather than just putting them down, well, that's not a good argument either.

I understand that you meant that WE CAN'T because we wouldn't be giving them a chance to explain their behavior. BUT, if you think about it, if rules are clearly written, and they obviously know what they're doing wrong, especially since members here have a habit of pointing it out, why don't we just do it anyway?

It's obvious we have some form of discussion, otherwise we wouldn't be able to come to a decision, but if the offense is so flagrant, why would it need to be discussed, or hell, even considered, if we have enough solid evidence of the rule breaking?

If our own entertainment, or that of the board's is the priority, wouldn't it just be smarter to leave the morons alone and let them keep doing what they do?

That doesn't fly either, does it?

It would say that it has more of the appeal of a train wreck. You just can NOT look. You're horrified by what's going on, but cannot seem to look away, and can't seem to tell anyone else what's going on, to keep the damage from escalating.

I think that our verbal onslaughts should be saved for asshole that go out of their way to humiliate or otherwise intimidate someone on the board, publicly.

That's when I think putting them in their place in the most intelligent/satirical manner is necessary. (Not to mention public) Hell, I can almost hear the crowds calling for blood when shit like that goes down.

THEN,

to truly defeat them, you ban them without giving them a chance to reply. Mwahahahahahahhahah!

'Cause then, they want to get back at you, but can't, they know others on the board are reading the verbal violation you just put on them, but they can't do a damn thing to stop it!

That right there, that's brilliance.


As far as Setgin's point, I don't know, I do it for a laugh, but mostly to amuse myself, not to get attention from others. I sometimes do because of what I say, but more often than not I'm loathed for the way I say it.

Some people have grace when they're putting someone down, I don't. I'm usually pretty blunt and my humor is acerbic. (Burns right down to the bone it does. )

Hannibal's known for his straight out usual, "Fuck you."

Setgin's known for his: "I see what you're saying, it's pretty illogical, so, well, fuck you...."

The General's known for: "....and see that? You just fucked yourself...nothin' left for me to say, 'cept...bye bye! *ban*"

Orthrus is known for: "You do realize that you can't fuck yourself like that, and this is why...."

I'm known for: "Oh wow, congrats! You've figured out how to fuck yourself? I'll go get you a gold star and put it on your forehead!"


Everyone's got a style, ain't that dandy?

(That last part was for my own giggles. 'cause, I giggled a lot when I wrote it. )

[E-Stalin [Orthrus]]

Well that's kind of the point though. There is NO real reason for opening a can of spray-on Chuck Norris ass-whoop rambling rant equivalent to shoving a guys face into a disc sander before hanging them by fishing line. We do it because it's actually fun in some twisted and convoluted way. So to answer Setg's rhetorical question, I'd say quite a lot. Afterall, what it comes down to is, "You're an idiot, be banneth."

And instead of that, we go Stalingrad on them with our own personal styles. Ada's description just gave me a good laugh. I think Han's approach works best. So, are we doing this to psychologically cover up our own defects? A primal territorial matter? We're not exactly a pack of wolves...not yet anyway. Although without a doubt, if we were a pack of wolves, the Alpha would be a mixture of Putin and Chuck Norris.

So in the end, ripping apart such people (Although justly deserved) really is rather pointless. It comes down to self-gratification...though I don't see anything wrong with that, other than a waste of energy and computer space. To quote one cool guy, "Humans are driven by selfish desires. Selfish desires are rarely rational."

If nothing else, my excuse is that it allows us an opportunity to laugh and therefore upholds our mental health. Sound good?

[Adara]

Feb 5, 2009 14:32:42 GMT -5 E-Stalin [Orthrus] said:

Well that's kind of the point though. There is NO real reason for opening a can of spray-on Chuck Norris ass-whoop rambling rant equivalent to shoving a guys face into a disc sander before hanging them by fishing line. We do it because it's actually fun in some twisted and convoluted way. So to answer Setg's rhetorical question, I'd say quite a lot. Afterall, what it comes down to is, "You're an idiot, be banneth."

So does that mean those jackasses we owned were right? We were just showing off?! OMG!

And instead of that, we go Stalingrad on them with our own personal styles. Ada's description just gave me a good laugh. I think Han's approach works best. So, are we doing this to psychologically cover up our own defects? A primal territorial matter? We're not exactly a pack of wolves...not yet anyway. Although without a doubt, if we were a pack of wolves, the Alpha would be a mixture of Putin and Chuck Norris.

Yeah, I figured people would have a chuckle at that, since I did too. We seem to have pretty similar sense of humor here. The last sentence in this made me laugh.

You know why?

For those of you who don't know, several months ago, Vladimir Putin (Then President of Russia) went on vacation and was photographed fishing without a shirt on. Needless to say, he's pretty well built, (considering what he used to do before he was president, that doesn't surprise me) and the Russian women went fangirl status on his ass for it.

Now, Orthrus just compared us to that, lol, or rather him, does that mean the guys are now going to be posting topless pictures of themselves for the girl's viewing pleasure?

(Don't you people dare ask how I found out about him being shirtless...OH MY GAWD, DID I MENTION HE SPEAKS SPANISH?!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!one!!!)

So in the end, ripping apart such people (Although justly deserved) really is rather pointless. It comes down to self-gratification...though I don't see anything wrong with that, other than a waste of energy and computer space. To quote one cool guy, "Humans are driven by selfish desires. Selfish desires are rarely rational."

It isn't exactly considered a waste, since Joker doesn't get charged for however much space we take up arguing the unarguable. Yay for our egos!

If nothing else, my excuse is that it allows us an opportunity to laugh and therefore upholds our mental health. Sound good?

YAY FOR DA LULZ!!!!!!!

[Setg]

Feb 5, 2009 12:38:20 GMT -5 Adara said:

Hannibal's known for his straight out usual, "*pauk* you."

Setgin's known for his: "I see what you're saying, it's pretty illogical, so, well, *pauk* you...."

The General's known for: "....and see that? You just *pauk*ed yourself...nothin' left for me to say, 'cept...bye bye! *ban*"

Orthrus is known for: "You do realize that you can't *pauk* yourself like that, and this is why...."

I'm known for: "Oh wow, congrats! You've figured out how to *pauk* yourself? I'll go get you a gold star and put it on your forehead!"

I love this - it's both eerily accurate and completely hilarious in equal measure ;D
In fact, it's given me an idea. Maybe a thread dedicated to the greatest ownings this site have ever seen. People can link to their favourites, maybe even vote for them.

Whaddya think?

[Adara]

Feb 8, 2009 6:47:25 GMT -5 Setg said:

Feb 5, 2009 12:38:20 GMT -5 Adara said:

Hannibal's known for his straight out usual, "*pauk* you."

Setgin's known for his: "I see what you're saying, it's pretty illogical, so, well, *pauk* you...."

The General's known for: "....and see that? You just *pauk*ed yourself...nothin' left for me to say, 'cept...bye bye! *ban*"

Orthrus is known for: "You do realize that you can't *pauk* yourself like that, and this is why...."

I'm known for: "Oh wow, congrats! You've figured out how to *pauk* yourself? I'll go get you a gold star and put it on your forehead!"

I love this - it's both eerily accurate and completely hilarious in equal measure ;D
In fact, it's given me an idea. Maybe a thread dedicated to the greatest ownings this site have ever seen. People can link to their favourites, maybe even vote for them.

Whaddya think?

You know, that wouldn't be half bad. That's a good idea!

[E-Stalin [Orthrus]]

I think it's starting to become a site staple or something. Hell, it's practically a "weekly verbal abuse nominee".

[Hannibal]

Feb 8, 2009 11:21:11 GMT -5 Adara said:

Feb 8, 2009 6:47:25 GMT -5 Setg said:

I love this - it's both eerily accurate and completely hilarious in equal measure ;D
In fact, it's given me an idea. Maybe a thread dedicated to the greatest ownings this site have ever seen. People can link to their favourites, maybe even vote for them.

Whaddya think?

You know, that wouldn't be half bad. That's a good idea!

LMFAO! Let me tell you something.... LMAO! As soon as I finished reading this, and I mean the newest additions to this thread, I laughed with this response and laughed again, as my next statement is purely jokes. But then again those of you who know me... need not this explanation.

Let's shine the light on those, whom have fallen to the misfortune of, getting caught while jizzing in the corner. We should open up a thread of such... humility's and humorous indiscretion's.

[Still Churchill]

Feb 5, 2009 12:38:20 GMT -5 Adara said:

Some people have grace when they're putting someone down, I don't. I'm usually pretty blunt and my humor is acerbic. (Burns right down to the bone it does. )

Hannibal's known for his straight out usual, "*pauk* you."

Setgin's known for his: "I see what you're saying, it's pretty illogical, so, well, *pauk* you...."

The General's known for: "....and see that? You just *pauk*ed yourself...nothin' left for me to say, 'cept...bye bye! *ban*"

Orthrus is known for: "You do realize that you can't *pauk* yourself like that, and this is why...."

I'm known for: "Oh wow, congrats! You've figured out how to *pauk* yourself? I'll go get you a gold star and put it on your forehead!"


Everyone's got a style, ain't that dandy?

(That last part was for my own giggles. 'cause, I giggled a lot when I wrote it. )

I haven't ripped anybody in a while. But I agree, it's probably one of the most fun things a person can do on a forum like this. It's really fun when the oppurtunity is there, especially when the slaughter rant becomes the equivalent of literature. Which happens sometimes. I've seen some rips on here that I could read as much as real writing. When a person starts to slaughter people with words, it really becomes somewhat of an art. Unless you're an absolute dumbass.