The Last Jedi [SPOILERS]

[Tundra]

I did not think it possible for Episode 8 to be a worse film than 7. I was wrong.

This is probably the worst Star Wars film ever. Sure, it's more enjoyable to watch than say, Episode II, but II at least made sense. It's written so disjointedly from Force Awakens you'd think it was a completely different franchise.

I'm not exaggerating when I say the Porgs were the highlight for me.

---

Having had some weeks to collect my thoughts, and read/watch other peoples opinions on the film, I can confirm; I hate The Last Jedi, and I hope Rian Johnson's crotch gets mauled by a rabid mongoose.

Holy porg fuck, this movie is 10 times worse than anything the Prequels could ever do. I would rather watch Jar Jar Binks sex tape on repeat Clockwork Orange style, than even think about the Last Jedi.
It's just an affront to George Lucas' legacy, to the Star Wars universe, and some of cinemas most beloved and iconic characters. And Kathleen Kennedy, and Disney all gave Rian the green light to power through, and deliver us this travesty.

I went in with low, or none existing expectations, but even that wasn't enough. I've no idea what to think about Episode 9. Sure, Jar Jar Abrams is back directing, but, is it gonna be another repeat of the old films? A whole movie trying to fix the things Last Jedi fucked up? More of the nonsensical SJW powered Last Jedi bullshit?

Fuck I miss George...

[slayer77]

As promised I’ll weigh in on new (Disney fanfic) Star Wars.

Ok first off I’m gonna start out by saying I didn’t like The Force Awakens, it was a glorified remake of the original at best and just plain irritating at worst. Having said that I do enjoy the new characters though it’s taken a while for me to warm to them. I thought Finn was great in TFA and I liked that they explored a rogue stormtrooper arc in the movies but that was about it, I mean any Star Wars movie that kills Han Solo can go fuck itself (sure Harrison Ford didn’t want to play the role anymore but that’s irrelevant). Anyway I’m getting sidetracked here I promised you a review of The Last Jedi and that’s what you’re getting

If I’m totally honest when I watched The Last Jedi I actually enjoyed it. The problem jumping out at me though is now that I think about it, my memory of it isn’t that great which for a film isn’t a good sign, you want to be entertained and you want to remember what it was you were entertained by so for that reason it’s dropped a little in how I rate it. So first off I’ll talk about the premise a little. So it’s all about progressing from where TFA left off. Rey’s found Luke to learn the ways of the Force, Finn’s on life support, Poe’s leading a distraction against the Force Order so the Resistance can escape their counter strike following the destruction of Starkiller Base. Basically we’re looking at a similar thing to the old EU’s escape from Yavin following the destruction of the Death Star. So we’re thrown into the action straight away and to be fair it’s enjoyable watching Poe lead his bombers against the Dreadnought but it has its problems the big one I’ll come on to. During this attack we are shown one of the bomber pilots several times, this pilot ends up being the one that eventually is able to drop the payload her bomber is carrying and destroy the dreadnought at the expense of her own life. She becomes important later on given she is the sister of new character Rose but it’s a bit unnecessary wasting time by giving her this heroic death that sort of becomes unimportant in the larger story of the film largely because of the arc given to her sister.

So the Resistance escape but not for long as the First Order are able to track them through hyperspace which is a cool idea but goes completely unexplained, we’re just supposed to suddenly believe that the First Order has this technology despite no evidence prior and kinda calls into question why then they didn’t track the Falcon using that method in TFA. It just brings up a few plot holes throughout I mean sure the First Order somehow managed to engineer the interior of a planet so that it was capable of harnessing the power of a sun without disintegrating and the novelisation says that the beam fired to destroy the Hosnian system travelled through Hyperspace (sorry but if Disney want to be strict with their canon then this explanation in novel is non canon since the movie takes precedent and such a thing isn’t explained, it’s just a red line that flies through space miraculously not striking anything until it reaches its target and passes by Takodana so the main characters can see it and react with horror and give Kylo Ren the compulsive urge to lean on his window frame). So not a great story element, just trying to expect the audience will overlook the plot holes it creates.

We’re then gifted with a laboured chase where the Resistance are just about able to stay out of reach of the First Order’s destructive cannons. Anyway I’m getting a bit bored analysing this step by step so I’ll skip to the stuff that had everybody talking. Firstly let’s address the Super Leia scene. I’m seriously struggling to put into words how terrible this scene was. It was there to basically concretely show Leia has the force which any Star Wars fan worth their grain of salt already knows, it doesn’t have to be shown to enforce that, the franchise is a space fantasy epic it’s not that difficult for people to understand Leia has the force. The manner in which it is done as well is ridiculous and honestly I felt they cheapened Carrie Fisher’s role by doing it.

Rey’s parentage. Now I’ll admit when I watched TFA I wasn’t that bowled over by Rey, she was an ok character but there just didn’t seem to be much about her which actually I did like about TLJ. They progressed her arc further and examined her a bit more closely, Luke kept pushing to find out the reasons she was doing what she was doing and she progressed well, for me she had the best arc in the film. Her parentage revelation has split many fans to say the least but I didn’t mind it. The whole point in the initial story with Luke was he was basically just this ordinary farm boy but he was able to still make a difference. It didn’t matter that he seemed to come from nothing he was just an ordinary bloke setting out to fight against an Empire he considered to be perpetrating mass injustice over the galaxy. He didn’t like that so he chose to fight for his freedom and the freedom of others, he ended up becoming a Jedi and a hero along the way but he never set out to do that. Likewise does Rey’s irrelevant parents who sold her into slavery basically have any effect on who she is and what she chooses to do. I don’t see the problem honestly she’s no different to Luke in the original film before we find out his connection to Vader so personally I don’t mind that, it’s far more encouraging to see somebody that might be considered worthless end up doing something that benefits everybody it just says that anyone can make a difference if they fight for it. Interestingly though this debate has actually soured the film for me, not because fans are split over it but the fact Rian Johnson tried to backtrack over the mixed reception saying that it was what Kylo Ren said, it doesn’t necessarily mean he was telling the truth. Honestly this pissed me off, I mean say what you want about the prequels but at least George Lucas had the balls to stand by his mistakes and hold his hands up to them. Johnson clearly intended that Rey’s parents were deadbeat scum and Kylo Ren has no reason to lie to Rey, sure he’s trying to manipulate her but revealing the truth to her is more likely to get her to trust him but because fans were split on it he started backtracking which to me is just weak.

Alright Snoke, no doubt this was a controversial move. To me I’m so glad they did it. When I went to see TLJ I had little to no expectation for it which is probably why I actually enjoyed it quite a bit despite its faults. I always find fan theories in Star Wars irritating as well so the sadist in me took great pleasure in seeing a bunch of anal Star Wars fans bitch and moan over the fact that they hadn’t been given a big reveal regarding Snoke (I mean there’s still another movie in the trilogy to go we’re probably gonna find out something more about him and if not, Disney will probably cover it elsewhere). To me Snoke has always been a new character they introduced and built up as the sequels ‘big bad’ after Palpatine in the previous 6. Given how much the sequels copy the originals I was absolutely jumping for joy in my seat when Kylo Ren killed Snoke, I didn’t expect it but it opened up a load of possibilities for the remainder of the trilogy by removing him. There are problems of course which I’ll get to but I actually liked what happened to Snoke, I like there’s still a mystery to him, I like that they moved away from expectation and killed him off, it shakes up the films which were becoming more and more like a remake of the originals and the only thing I went into TLJ thinking was, this better not be a remake of Empire.

Luke. I actually really enjoyed Mark Hamill’s performance in this film, there was still a hint of the old Luke’s we all love but he really captured that been there seen it all fucked up now piss off attitude and for me was the best thing about the movie aside from Rey’s development. I liked they gave Luke that epic moment of walking away from a hail of walker fire as if his cloak had been mildly singe, I mean ok it was a force projection but given that Luke is the most powerful Jedi it was great to give him something awesome to do. My one big problem though was they killed him off. Now don’t get me wrong I thought his death scene was brilliantly done, transforming into the force whilst watching twin suns rise paying homage to that beautiful iconic moment in the original Star Wars was truly amazing and I couldn’t have asked for Luke to go out better but what was the point of killing him, he could still continue to shape the story and could easily stand up against Kylo Ren and just do some more awesome stuff that we want to see but instead they kill him off which to me was just unnecessary and irritating. Disney seem to want to kill off all the original characters we know and love to push their new characters which still need developing in many ways whilst simultaneously parodying the originals. They basically don’t seem to know what they want to do with the sequels, they started off by remaking the original and trying to give us a fan serviced thing to make up for the prequels, honestly at this point I would have to say I preferred the prequels to the sequels in so far as the fact they were different and opened up all these new avenues that, ok the films weren’t great but we would never have gotten the likes of KOTOR or TOR without the prequels, the sequels just haven’t really added anything to the universe.

Major problems time. What is the point of the First Order? They didn’t really seem to have much of an objective in the first place, sure takeover the galaxy but why? Why did they disagree with the Republic? The First Order principles seemed to be derived from the desire to create order that Palpatine had achieved with his Empire, bringing together the galaxy, removing the useless senate and bringing about peace. The New Republic went back to the democratic system of the Old Republic but restructured it and made necessary changes to promote a peaceful society and thus achieved order. So why do they exist from that point of view? Now Snoke would have provided the answers for that but he’s dead. Kylo Ren who is a very weak villain at best is Now Supreme Leader of the First Order and his only objective seems to be to throw a temper tantrum because boo hoo I wanna be Darth Vader. The First Order has no stable command structure they’ve become basically an excessive overblown bodyguard unit for a child who throws his toys out the pram at the slightest thing and his second in command wants to usurp his position. They’re pathetic as a threat and have no real standing anymore.

Rose, now I didn’t really care to much about Rose she was just there. Her sideline quest with Finn was basically pointless and it was literally giving Finn something to do because they just couldn’t think of anything to do with him which hurt his character because he doesn’t really develop much further from the end of TFA. Rose also saves his life but ok obviously I don’t want them to kill off Finn especially after they’ve butchered Han and Luke, made Chewie, 3-P0 and R2 non entities and are likely gonna off Leia in Episode IX though maybe they’ll surprise us and keep the Princess alive. But yeah Rose saves Finn from committing suicide. Thing is Finn’s suicide was gonna destroy the battering ram the First Order were using to batter down the only thing protecting the last survivors of the Resistance which at that moment you know (cause what if Luke didn’t show up?) you wouldn’t be judged for thinking the Resistances fucked and it’s all thanks to Rose. Poe got some welcome development but there’s still a way to go also Holdo kind of became irrelevant sadly as Laura Dean could have been a really awesome edition for the rest of the trilogy.

I wouldn’t say this was the best Star Wars movie by a long shot but I do stand by my initial rating and think it’s entertaining and there’s fun elements in it. I would rate it higher than several of the other Star Wars and thought it was much better than TFA but if I’m honest I’m still not 100% with the sequel trilogy but the new characters Rey, Finn and Poe are growing on me.

To conclude though the one thing I think Disney did get right was Rogue One which for me managed to capture the spirit of the original movies whilst adding some new interesting characters with varying motives and being just a gritty war film that helped add to the originals. I’ve also enjoyed Rebels for the most part as well but aside from that Disney cold do better, much much better oh and the shit humour they keep adding. They’ve done it with Marvel and now I’m starting to get tired of them repeating the GOTG formula they’ve done with Marvel but now their throwing cheap jokes into Star Wars that just don’t work it’s things like that which just demonstrate that Disney just don’t understand or respect their own licenses. I mean humour in Marvel isn’t an alien concept but when you’re in the middle of a pretty serious moment a cheap one liner to poke fun at itself just cheapens the movie and I’ve noticed elements of that in the sequel trilogy though moreso with TLJ.

[Tundra]

Jan 17, 2018 18:52:35 GMT -5 slayer77 said:

Ok first off I’m gonna start out by saying I didn’t like The Force Awakens, it was a glorified remake of the original at best and just plain irritating at worst. Having said that I do enjoy the new characters though it’s taken a while for me to warm to them. I thought Finn was great in TFA and I liked that they explored a rogue stormtrooper arc in the movies but that was about it, I mean any Star Wars movie that kills Han Solo can go fuck itself (sure Harrison Ford didn’t want to play the role anymore but that’s irrelevant). Anyway I’m getting sidetracked here I promised you a review of The Last Jedi and that’s what you’re getting

I thought I didn't like Force Awakens until Last Jedi. I'm more or less at peace with TFA at this point. I get what it wanted to do, and it does it reasonably well.
The new characters, apart from Rey, are characters i really want to love. Poe and Finn have infinite potential together, and they needed a whole buddy-cop plotline in Last Jedi.
Kylo is honestly, a pretty great character. He's complex in a very interesting way for the Star Wars films, namely that he is tempted and drawn by the Light, but wants to use the Dark side.

Rey is a Mary Sue, and catastrophically boring. Daisy Ridley is fun, and can act really well, but her character is just so off putting.

If I’m totally honest when I watched The Last Jedi I actually enjoyed it. The problem jumping out at me though is now that I think about it, my memory of it isn’t that great which for a film isn’t a good sign, you want to be entertained and you want to remember what it was you were entertained by so for that reason it’s dropped a little in how I rate it.

It is an entertaining, and well made film, technically. It's hard to deny that. I definitely laughed and smiled more during it, than Episode II, though I like II much better.

So first off I’ll talk about the premise a little. So it’s all about progressing from where TFA left off. Rey’s found Luke to learn the ways of the Force, Finn’s on life support, Poe’s leading a distraction against the Force Order so the Resistance can escape their counter strike following the destruction of Starkiller Base. Basically we’re looking at a similar thing to the old EU’s escape from Yavin following the destruction of the Death Star. So we’re thrown into the action straight away and to be fair it’s enjoyable watching Poe lead his bombers against the Dreadnought but it has its problems the big one I’ll come on to.

Honestly, already here the problems begin for me. I'm not sure I like that Last Jedi breaks a 40 year, 7 films tradition, by starting exactly where the last film ended. The time gaps present in all other Saga films, for one, justify the iconic opening crawl, and it gives the characters necessary development between films.
And in the Last Jedis case, it also creates a giant plothole; How the hell is the First Order in power, when they destroyed the infrastructure of the Republic? The Republic is made up of thousands, upon thousands of star systems, and without the Senate, who is in charge? Did everyone just default and swore allegiance to Snoke? How can any faction gain control of the entire Republic in the very narrow time frame between the destruction of the Hosnian system, and the beginning of Last Jedi?

??+

During this attack we are shown one of the bomber pilots several times, this pilot ends up being the one that eventually is able to drop the payload her bomber is carrying and destroy the dreadnought at the expense of her own life. She becomes important later on given she is the sister of new character Rose but it’s a bit unnecessary wasting time by giving her this heroic death that sort of becomes unimportant in the larger story of the film largely because of the arc given to her sister.

No idea how to feel about this. The pay off comes much later in the film, with that whole necklace being useful bit, and I dunno if it's worth it.

So the Resistance escape but not for long as the First Order are able to track them through hyperspace which is a cool idea but goes completely unexplained, we’re just supposed to suddenly believe that the First Order has this technology despite no evidence prior and kinda calls into question why then they didn’t track the Falcon using that method in TFA.

For what it's worth; There is a line in Rogue One when Jyn is perusing the Empire's secret archive and briefly mentions something about the Empire researching hyperspace tracking.
To me, that's not worth much though. It's not good filmmaking when a throwaway line in one film has to explain a plot point in whole other film.

Firstly let’s address the Super Leia scene. I’m seriously struggling to put into words how terrible this scene was. It was there to basically concretely show Leia has the force which any Star Wars fan worth their grain of salt already knows, it doesn’t have to be shown to enforce that, the franchise is a space fantasy epic it’s not that difficult for people to understand Leia has the force. The manner in which it is done as well is ridiculous and honestly I felt they cheapened Carrie Fisher’s role by doing it.

Rian Johnson has since explained that when Leia used this power, it was an instictive move by her, not because she's necessarily had any Jedi training. Thing is though, and this will be a recurring theme through my thoughts on Last Jedi; that's not how the Force works.
The way Leia used the Force is not a simple thing, it's clearly a very powerful Force move, it shouldn't be something anyone can just whip out in an emergency.

Rey’s parentage. Now I’ll admit when I watched TFA I wasn’t that bowled over by Rey, she was an ok character but there just didn’t seem to be much about her which actually I did like about TLJ. They progressed her arc further and examined her a bit more closely, Luke kept pushing to find out the reasons she was doing what she was doing and she progressed well, for me she had the best arc in the film.

Hers was by far the worst arc to me.

Her parentage revelation has split many fans to say the least but I didn’t mind it. The whole point in the initial story with Luke was he was basically just this ordinary farm boy but he was able to still make a difference. It didn’t matter that he seemed to come from nothing he was just an ordinary bloke setting out to fight against an Empire he considered to be perpetrating mass injustice over the galaxy. He didn’t like that so he chose to fight for his freedom and the freedom of others, he ended up becoming a Jedi and a hero along the way but he never set out to do that. Likewise does Rey’s irrelevant parents who sold her into slavery basically have any effect on who she is and what she chooses to do. I don’t see the problem honestly she’s no different to Luke in the original film before we find out his connection to Vader so personally I don’t mind that, it’s far more encouraging to see somebody that might be considered worthless end up doing something that benefits everybody it just says that anyone can make a difference if they fight for it.

I wouldn't care at all who Rey's parents were, if not for the fact that she's absurdly, bizzarely strong and adept in the Force. Abilities that Luke and even Anakin spent years mastering, she uses within days of learning that the Force is a thing that exists, with ease.
I'm going to use this opportunity to release my pent up Rey hate;

She's a fucking Mary Sue character who pulls powers and skills out of her ass whenever she needs to. Since TFA, she's lost nothing, she's only been given powers. No matter what situation she's in, she masters whatever ability is needed to succeed. She can fly the Millenium Falcon better than Han, repair it better than Han. She can outfight and outshoot all the First Orders troops. She pulls off Force moves despite having no way of knowing they exist, or how the Force works. Seconds after first holding a Lightsaber, she defeats Kylo Ren, a man who's spent decades training with that weapon, and she does all of this effortlessly.

It even goes against all established lore that she can do these things. Luke in Episode 5, had spent 2-3 years after Episode 4 training with the Force, and he still needed concentration and effort to pull his lightsaber out of a small snowbank. When he trains with Yoda he fails every Force related task given to him, despite giving his all.
Yet Rey, with what has to be less than a week of "training", can lift dozens of large boulders with no effort.

Her mastery of the lightsaber likewise directly contradicts what we know about that weapon. Anakin was a prodigy who'd spent 10 years training in a variety of lightsaber forms. Count Dooku cuts him down in like 2 minutes and barely breaks a sweat.
In Rebels, Sabine Wren, a non-Force sensitive Mandalorian needs training by a Jedi to use the Darksaber. The dialogue in this segment specifically tells us that lightsabers are not something anyone, no matter how proficient with other weapons, can just pick up and be good at.

Except Rey... Holy porg fuck am I starting to hate that character.

Interestingly though this debate has actually soured the film for me, not because fans are split over it but the fact Rian Johnson tried to backtrack over the mixed reception saying that it was what Kylo Ren said, it doesn’t necessarily mean he was telling the truth. Honestly this pissed me off, I mean say what you want about the prequels but at least George Lucas had the balls to stand by his mistakes and hold his hands up to them. Johnson clearly intended that Rey’s parents were deadbeat scum and Kylo Ren has no reason to lie to Rey, sure he’s trying to manipulate her but revealing the truth to her is more likely to get her to trust him but because fans were split on it he started backtracking which to me is just weak.

Misdirection is a tool commonly used in Star Wars marketing today. If you rewatch the first Rogue One trailers, it's like a completely different film.

Alright Snoke, no doubt this was a controversial move. To me I’m so glad they did it. When I went to see TLJ I had little to no expectation for it which is probably why I actually enjoyed it quite a bit despite its faults. I always find fan theories in Star Wars irritating as well so the sadist in me took great pleasure in seeing a bunch of anal Star Wars fans bitch and moan over the fact that they hadn’t been given a big reveal regarding Snoke (I mean there’s still another movie in the trilogy to go we’re probably gonna find out something more about him and if not, Disney will probably cover it elsewhere).

Snoke to me is just another glaring plot hole. How is both the leader of the First Order, immensely powerful with the Dark side, and had easy access to Kylo Ren to corrupt him? Maybe I'm misremembering, or misinterpreting some things, but I'm under the impression that Leia, Han and Luke had some sort of relationship with Snoke during Kylo's upbringing, seeing as they all know who Snoke is and blame him for corrupting Kylo.

Which also contradicts the plot point from TFA, that implies Kylo was heavily influenced by some sort of experience with Darth Vader's mask, and not by Snoke.

That's also a thing I hate Rian Johnson for; He deliberately ignores huge plot points from TFA, to suit his own film. I wanna know who the fuck the Knights of Ren were! And I need for the world to know exactly who Snoke was, because If i see one more Star Wars "fan" call him a "powerful but mysterious Sith lord" I'm going to flip all the fucking porgs.
The porgs, they will be flipped!

Luke. I actually really enjoyed Mark Hamill’s performance in this film, there was still a hint of the old Luke’s we all love but he really captured that been there seen it all fucked up now piss off attitude and for me was the best thing about the movie aside from Rey’s development.

I agree, Mark's performance, as usual, was awe inspiring. But the problem for me is; With no build up, we learn that Luke in a dark moment almost murdered his fucking nephew in his sleep. The last time most of us saw Luke Skywalker, he had overcome his hatred, and forsaken the dark. He redeemed his father, a man even Obi-Wan and Yoda believed lost forever, and restored hope to the galaxy.
How the fuck do you go from that to almost killing your nephew because of one, brief glimpse into his future?

I'm not saying this plot point couldn't have worked. I'm saying Rian Johnson fucked it up, and ruined one of cinemas greatest heroes.

I liked they gave Luke that epic moment of walking away from a hail of walker fire as if his cloak had been mildly singe, I mean ok it was a force projection but given that Luke is the most powerful Jedi it was great to give him something awesome to do. My one big problem though was they killed him off.

My problems with this sequence is 2 fold.

1; Rian again breaks a 40 years, 7 film tradition by making The Last Jedi the only Star Wars film without a lightsaber duel. Fuck. That.
2; Some people have waited decades to see Luke become the most powerful Jedi ever. The Jedi that could rectify the flaws of the old Order, and embody all the ideals that the Jedi aspired to.
Instead, we see him use 1 powerful and cool new Force power. And he's gone forever now.

I'm also not sure I like this new notion that one can utilize the Force to such a degree that it will kill you. Especially since Luke gets back up once he ends his projection and has time to position himself before dying.

Now don’t get me wrong I thought his death scene was brilliantly done, transforming into the force whilst watching twin suns rise paying homage to that beautiful iconic moment in the original Star Wars was truly amazing and I couldn’t have asked for Luke to go out better

I agree, but this would have worked infinitely better in Episode 9, the actual ending to the Skywalker Saga.

but what was the point of killing him, he could still continue to shape the story and could easily stand up against Kylo Ren and just do some more awesome stuff that we want to see but instead they kill him off which to me was just unnecessary and irritating. Disney seem to want to kill off all the original characters we know and love to push their new characters which still need developing in many ways whilst simultaneously parodying the originals. They basically don’t seem to know what they want to do with the sequels, they started off by remaking the original and trying to give us a fan serviced thing to make up for the prequels, honestly at this point I would have to say I preferred the prequels to the sequels in so far as the fact they were different and opened up all these new avenues that, ok the films weren’t great but we would never have gotten the likes of KOTOR or TOR without the prequels, the sequels just haven’t really added anything to the universe.

You're completely right. And it is not a secret that 7, 8, 9 were not written as one long story, but that they're being made step by step. Hence why Rian ignores or contradicts huge plot points in TFA. Fucking Kathleen Kennedy and Disney, how the hell do you not sit down with a core team, and actually fucking flesh out what you know will be the end to a Saga 40 years in the making...

Major problems time. What is the point of the First Order? They didn’t really seem to have much of an objective in the first place, sure takeover the galaxy but why? Why did they disagree with the Republic? The First Order principles seemed to be derived from the desire to create order that Palpatine had achieved with his Empire, bringing together the galaxy, removing the useless senate and bringing about peace. The New Republic went back to the democratic system of the Old Republic but restructured it and made necessary changes to promote a peaceful society and thus achieved order. So why do they exist from that point of view? Now Snoke would have provided the answers for that but he’s dead.

I've never actually thought of the First Order like that before. They were a big plot hole since TFA, but you're right, they don't have a point really.
The Empire wasn't just a plot to control the galaxy. It was a Sith masterplan over 1000 years in the making and was centered around destroying the Jedi, and ruling the galaxy. Sidious genius was just that he accomplished these things under the guise of bringing order via the Empire.

We needed Snoke to explain this.

Kylo Ren who is a very weak villain at best is Now Supreme Leader of the First Order and his only objective seems to be to throw a temper tantrum because boo hoo I wanna be Darth Vader. The First Order has no stable command structure they’ve become basically an excessive overblown bodyguard unit for a child who throws his toys out the pram at the slightest thing and his second in command wants to usurp his position. They’re pathetic as a threat and have no real standing anymore.

I do like Kylo as a villain, but he needs a Snoke or Palpatine to work best. His tantrums to me, also showed that he, like Snoke, aren't Sith.
Sith use anger to fuel their powers, Kylo can only lash out with it.
There's still Hux though, the Sequels Piet...

Rose, now I didn’t really care to much about Rose she was just there. Her sideline quest with Finn was basically pointless and it was literally giving Finn something to do because they just couldn’t think of anything to do with him which hurt his character because he doesn’t really develop much further from the end of TFA. Rose also saves his life but ok obviously I don’t want them to kill off Finn especially after they’ve butchered Han and Luke, made Chewie, 3-P0 and R2 non entities and are likely gonna off Leia in Episode IX though maybe they’ll surprise us and keep the Princess alive. But yeah Rose saves Finn from committing suicide. Thing is Finn’s suicide was gonna destroy the battering ram the First Order were using to batter down the only thing protecting the last survivors of the Resistance which at that moment you know (cause what if Luke didn’t show up?) you wouldn’t be judged for thinking the Resistances fucked and it’s all thanks to Rose.

I don't mind Rose, theoretically. But in practice, all she's done is dilute the time we all need with Poe, Finn, Kylo and Rey. Poe and Finn is a fucking powerhouse of character potential, and if they'd had their own B plot, the film would have been better for it.
That whole casino side plot can go suck a porg.

Poe got some welcome development but there’s still a way to go also Holdo kind of became irrelevant sadly as Laura Dean could have been a really awesome edition for the rest of the trilogy.

I hated Holdo, or as the internet calls her, "Vice Admiral SJW". There was zero reason why she couldn't let Poe know exactly what the hell her plan was, and avoid Poe doing something drastic, like committing mutiny. All she does the whole film, is provide friction for Poe, for no particularly good reason.
Poe's the fucking best pilot in the Resistance, you'd think putting him inside one of those super vulnerable transports would be a good tactical decision...

I wouldn’t say this was the best Star Wars movie by a long shot but I do stand by my initial rating and think it’s entertaining and there’s fun elements in it. I would rate it higher than several of the other Star Wars and thought it was much better than TFA but if I’m honest I’m still not 100% with the sequel trilogy but the new characters Rey, Finn and Poe are growing on me.

Like I said; Last Jedi is the worst Star Wars film to me. Rian Johnson wrote and directed it with too much leeway with regards to the lore and story.
It's like Last Jedi actively fights all the other Star Wars films, trying to surprise us and do it's own thing, trying to redefine what a Star Wars movie is. No one man, except George Lucas, should have the authority to make such drastic changes.

To conclude though the one thing I think Disney did get right was Rogue One which for me managed to capture the spirit of the original movies whilst adding some new interesting characters with varying motives and being just a gritty war film that helped add to the originals. I’ve also enjoyed Rebels for the most part as well but aside from that Disney cold do better, much much better oh and the shit humour they keep adding. They’ve done it with Marvel and now I’m starting to get tired of them repeating the GOTG formula they’ve done with Marvel but now their throwing cheap jokes into Star Wars that just don’t work it’s things like that which just demonstrate that Disney just don’t understand or respect their own licenses. I mean humour in Marvel isn’t an alien concept but when you’re in the middle of a pretty serious moment a cheap one liner to poke fun at itself just cheapens the movie and I’ve noticed elements of that in the sequel trilogy though moreso with TLJ.

Quite right. Both TFA and Last Jedi had way too much forced humor. Even the OT was very restrained with its comedy.

---

Also, just in regards to all of Rey's Force powers, and The Last Jedis ending;

Porg it... Just porg it all...

[E-Stalin [Orthrus]]

m.youtube.com/watch?v=bWkr3k-eyio

[Tundra]

Feb 6, 2018 22:04:54 GMT -5 E-Stalin [Orthrus] said:

m.youtube.com/watch?v=bWkr3k-eyio

What the shit is "Bud Ice"?

[E-Stalin [Orthrus]]

Feb 7, 2018 4:16:22 GMT -5 Tundra said:

Feb 6, 2018 22:04:54 GMT -5 E-Stalin [Orthrus] said:

m.youtube.com/watch?v=bWkr3k-eyio

What the shit is "Bud Ice"?

Cheap, drinkable, and higher ABV.
In other words, my ghetto beer of choice

[Tundra]

Feb 7, 2018 13:44:52 GMT -5 E-Stalin [Orthrus] said:

Feb 7, 2018 4:16:22 GMT -5 Tundra said:

What the shit is "Bud Ice"?

Cheap, drinkable, and higher ABV.
In other words, my ghetto beer of choice

Aight fair enough. The bottle looks pretty cool. Though I've no idea what higher ABV means. Google tells me it's 5.5%, that's standard ABV for lagers no? Higher ABV for me starts here; www.harboe.com/en/component/harboe/product/12

Pretty intense review too dude, and you provide a whole new angle for the incompetence in the film. Most people focus on the "Star Wars-y" things, not the lack of internal consistent logic.
Do you feel like the Prequels and OT are more consistent, and not completely brain dead when it comes to their militaries?

[E-Stalin [Orthrus]]

Well the trouble is that Rey isn't even a mary sue anymore, the MOVIE ITSELF becomes a mary sue when you write things that make no sense, but the good guys prevail - it means you can make anything up at anytime you need to, which in turn means you can't create tension.

During the battle of endor, we don't need to know whether the death star laser is logical of not, because they set up something we KNOW (this thing is taking out our ships) so the good guys have to hug the Star Destroyers, which also eat at their fleet.
Tension. Positions, numbers, odds, so on.

The empire was established as DANGEROUS, because they're competent and don't do really stupid shit constantly. Moff Tarkin got shit DONE, he wasn't to be trifled with.
It's small things, like him saying "I'm taking an awful risk Vader, this better work." Showing that he's competent at what he does and wouldn't take silly risks.

The Battle of Yavin. You know what their mission is, what they need to do, and what gets in the way of it. Tension.

Palpatine is playing politics to get into power. We know what he wants. Plot.

The Last Jedi though gives us NOTHING except for when they pull something out of their asses for when they need to.
Oh, you're stuck? Call orange lady, who gives you magic way out when you need it (better hope your codebreaker's not asleep!)
Still stuck? We have transports now. Still stuck? There's a planet now.

I could keep going, but you guys have already addressed a lot of what I feel peeved about better than I could.

Oh, and once more for good measure, fuck Rose.

[Still Churchill]

Feb 7, 2018 13:44:52 GMT -5 E-Stalin [Orthrus] said:

Feb 7, 2018 4:16:22 GMT -5 Tundra said:

What the shit is "Bud Ice"?

Cheap, drinkable, and higher ABV.
In other words, my ghetto beer of choice

Get you a pair of stovepipe sixers of that and you’ll understand what a full frontal lobotomy feels like

[Tundra]

Mar 29, 2018 22:53:25 GMT -5 Still Churchill said:

Feb 7, 2018 13:44:52 GMT -5 E-Stalin [Orthrus] said:

Cheap, drinkable, and higher ABV.
In other words, my ghetto beer of choice

Get you a pair of stovepipe sixers of that and you’ll understand what a full frontal lobotomy feels like

I've never heard of "stovepipe sixers", but the lobotomy part intrigues me, please, do elaborate.

[Still Churchill]

Mar 29, 2018 23:23:28 GMT -5 Tundra said:

Mar 29, 2018 22:53:25 GMT -5 Still Churchill said:

Get you a pair of stovepipe sixers of that and you’ll understand what a full frontal lobotomy feels like

I've never heard of "stovepipe sixers", but the lobotomy part intrigues me, please, do elaborate.

lol, bigger cans basically. Usually you get a beer it’s 12 ounces, a stovepipe or tall boy or whatever the fuck you want to call it is gonna be 16 ounces. So a sixer of stovepipes is gonna be equivalent to 9 beers. So if you get yourself 2 stovepipe sixers of some high powered hobo beer like bud ice you’re gonna be taking in about 18 beers but really with bud ice it’s a nice bit stronger than the typical American beer so then it’s closer to 20 beers and you might start going full retard

EDIT: I do not encourage anyone to drink this much

[Tundra]

Had to do some Googling, but I get it. Apparently these "stovepipes" are the same as the 500ml cans I drink my 7.7%-11% beer from.

This is bad, right?

[Still Churchill]

Mar 31, 2018 0:22:09 GMT -5 Tundra said:

Had to do some Googling, but I get it. Apparently these "stovepipes" are the same as the 500ml cans I drink my 7.7%-11% beer from.

This is bad, right?

That sounds like a stovepipe to me. Not bad at all really, I drink whiskey on my off nights and get drunker than I should so I won’t judge on anyone for drinking habits. Bud ice is 6% though, you must be from Europe. What the hell has 7.7-11%? For academic purposes only.

[Tundra]

The good beer always has animals on it.

[Still Churchill]

Apr 1, 2018 5:04:45 GMT -5 Tundra said:

The good beer always has animals on it.

Jesus. Dies ist gut party, ja

[Tundra]

Apr 2, 2018 23:12:37 GMT -5 Still Churchill said:

Apr 1, 2018 5:04:45 GMT -5 Tundra said:

The good beer always has animals on it.

Jesus. Dies ist gut party, ja

Ja. Tastes like acute liver failure, but damn it feels good.

[Still Churchill]

Apr 3, 2018 16:48:42 GMT -5 Tundra said:

Apr 2, 2018 23:12:37 GMT -5 Still Churchill said:

Jesus. Dies ist gut party, ja

Ja. Tastes like acute liver failure, but damn it feels good.

Well, good news is the liver only needs about 2 weeks to completely heal itself, if no permanent damage has been done. Take a couple weeks to dry out every few months and you should be good.

Edit: seriously, if you have any concerns take a couple weeks and then go to a doctor for blood work. Ask them about your liver on the follow up. If you’re still young as in through 40 your body should be able to absorb most and you’d be amazed. A couple weeks off and you’re good as new as far as the liver is concerned.

[Tundra]

Apr 7, 2018 22:12:42 GMT -5 Still Churchill said:

Apr 3, 2018 16:48:42 GMT -5 Tundra said:

Ja. Tastes like acute liver failure, but damn it feels good.

Well, good news is the liver only needs about 2 weeks to completely heal itself, if no permanent damage has been done. Take a couple weeks to dry out every few months and you should be good.

Edit: seriously, if you have any concerns take a couple weeks and then go to a doctor for blood work. Ask them about your liver on the follow up. If you’re still young as in through 40 your body should be able to absorb most and you’d be amazed. A couple weeks off and you’re good as new as far as the liver is concerned.

Wow... Nobody's ever given me alcoholism advice, not even the assholes in the AA meetings.

Just kidding. They threw me out 'cause I thought the meetings were BYOB.

Cheers mate!

[E-Stalin [Orthrus]]

CHURCHIIIIIIIIIILL!!!!!!

[Still Churchill]

Apr 8, 2018 10:22:58 GMT -5 Tundra said:

Apr 7, 2018 22:12:42 GMT -5 Still Churchill said:

Well, good news is the liver only needs about 2 weeks to completely heal itself, if no permanent damage has been done. Take a couple weeks to dry out every few months and you should be good.

Edit: seriously, if you have any concerns take a couple weeks and then go to a doctor for blood work. Ask them about your liver on the follow up. If you’re still young as in through 40 your body should be able to absorb most and you’d be amazed. A couple weeks off and you’re good as new as far as the liver is concerned.

Wow... Nobody's ever given me alcoholism advice, not even the assholes in the AA meetings.

Just kidding. They threw me out 'cause I thought the meetings were BYOB.

Cheers mate!

Well, as someone who had concerns raised in the past at a physical, it helps. Wasn’t what the doctor said, but I did my research. Not as good as not drinking at all, but who the fuck wants to do that. Cheers.

STAAAAAAALIIIIIIIIIIN! That looks kind of strange actually, I might be on a list for pinkos now